Recently there has been a media escalation in the push for polygamy in Australia. Prime time shows such as Channel 7’s Today Tonight covered it, as well as other regular news programs. However, in a rare show of strength before Islamic agitprop, Australia’s Attorney General firmly rejected any push for such recognition of polygamous relationships.
Citing polygamy as against the law, Attorney-General Robert McLelland told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC): 'There is absolutely no way that the government will recognise polygamist relationships. They are unlawful and they will remain as such.' (source)
And the following editorial from today’s Australian could well have been written by AIM:
Polygamous "marriage" is not the Australian way
THE system of one law for all has served democratic, civil societies, including Australia, well for generations. This is the fundamental reason that polygamous marriages should not be awarded legal recognition. ………Marriage, however, is a distinct legal state and should remain so. Informed by centuries of Judeo Christian tradition, it is a legal, binding contract, entered into with full consent by a man and a woman, excluding all others. Human nature being as it is, marriages often do not turn out as planned. But to widen its definition to recognise polygamous unions would be to establish parallel jurisdictions and destabilise and alter society for the worse.
Of course, with predictable timing, Muslim spokesman Keysar Trad leapt to defend polygamy in the following way:
'If this woman has willfully chosen to enter into this relationship and makes a lifelong commitment to this person to be married, it shouldn't matter. If it was a business and the business had four partners we'd recognise that, but why don't we recognise it when it comes to consensual relationships amongst adults?' Trad said (source)So, any consensual relationship is OK? On those grounds pedophilia should be accepted if children consent to it. And
come to think of it, if a woman wants to have two, three or four husbands, why should that not be accepted as consensual? But let’s get down to the nitty gritties – if a lesbian wants to have polygamous lesbian relationships, or a bisexual man a mix and match of a few women and men – there are no grounds for stopping this on Trad’s argument, for they are ‘consensual’. And then there are possibilities with goats…but I won’t go there… And then there are the temporary marriages some Muslims insist are Islamic. A cursory glance at this whole issue reveals it is a recipe for social unrest, financial disaster, abuse and confusion. It is a serial delusion. When Sheikh Khalil Chami of the Islamic Welfare Centre in the Sydney suburb of Lakemba revealed on radio that he was asked to perform polygamous religious ceremonies on a regular basis, he said he declined but other sheikhs did not. Well Sheikh Chami, did you report those who broke the law? Or is that a trifle to you? Sheikh Chami goes on to say. 'If you know, there is law that will help you, there is community that will help you. Why not? Why not change the law? Not an open door but in a way everyone will have control. It's a bit hard, very difficult, but unless we face it, how (do) we overcome it?' Chami asked. (source)
This is cultural imperialism in its most sinister form – presenting a change of law as a desirable thing because it will elicit control. But who is in control? Muslims are creating the chimera that Australian lawmakers will somehow be in control, but then they ask for a law change for Islam, because they want to to control their own cultural and religious practices. If legalised, Muslims will just use Australian law to sanction their coercive polygamous marriages. Australian lawmakers would have little to say against the barrage of Islamic insistence that ‘this is our way’ and ‘you have to respect it, or else’. And as the enforced silence of women on this point is institutionalized, few would dare to speak out against it. The law would protect women the least. This polygamy push is an Islamic randy macho man idea, justifying male gratification with ‘the law’ so Muslims can polygamise in peace, and get paid for it with our tax dollars.
In "civilized" Malaysia polygamy thrives so why shoudn't we have it here in Australia?
Pictured: Bakar's three wives Asnah Jusoh, 46, Mazumi Ismail, 45, and Norazlina Ariffin, 25, said that their husband was a loving, honest and responsible man. Do we need more evidence?
Pictured: Bakar's three wives Asnah Jusoh, 46, Mazumi Ismail, 45, and Norazlina Ariffin, 25, said that their husband was a loving, honest and responsible man. Do we need more evidence?
Trad, whose mother was a third wife, insists that from his experience ‘…women admired, respected and supported each other in such relationships.’ Trad does not seem to understand the pathologising effect of being caught in a coercive group and being subjected to its way of thought. Those caught in various sexual extravaganzas in other sects, may ‘support’ it when they are in it, because there is nowhere for them to go if they leave, and they have been so successfully brainwashed. They are truly victims with little right of refusal.
In any case, which women are you talking about Trad, when you say they are so happy? For this is not the evidence of Muslim women who have been brave enough to speak out such as this one who declared:
“I’m against polygamy — it’s bad for the woman, the man and the children.” (source)
And some Muslim women’s organisations have braved the ire of fellow Muslims to speak out.
A coalition of 12 Malaysian women's groups on Sunday launched a campaign against polygamy following recent moves by some states to ease restrictions for Muslim men to take a second wife………The "Campaign for Monogamy" was backed by Endon Mahmood, the wife of Acting Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.
"Polygamy all too often destroys the happiness of a marriage and family, and implications for the children involved are almost always ignored," she said when launching the campaign at a shopping mall in a Kuala Lumpur suburb. (source)
Perhaps Susan Carland or Keysar Trad's wife would like to change places with some of the truly liberated ladies form Muslim states fully protected by Sharia?
Many Muslim women are uneasy about polygamy but feel powerless to speak out. However, there is strength in numbers and now is the time to stand up against this very anti-woman custom. What a profound insult to a woman to say that woman number 2 ,is coming along and then number 3, and then to say it is a kindness for wife number one, who cannot have children, or who for some other reason have difficulties- being too old, or unattractive, or intelligent, or unappealing, or whatever – to keep her on, in this menagerie. It is patronising in the extreme and overlooks the individual nature of the woman and her basic desires. One ex-Muslim woman told me that she converted to Christianity because she knew that in terms of the ‘natural law’ polygamy was just wrong, not the way things were meant to be. She has been happily married for over thirty years and has 10 children and is very happy to have left Islam. Many women put on ‘a face’, she says, and seem to be happy when the second wife comes along, but it is a helpless position and the smile masks deep sadness and resignation. Every single female visitor to the household becomes a source of anxiety to the wife, and because inheritance issues are involved, the first wife dare not show her true feelings.
Let us hope that the attorney General sticks to his firm rejection of polygamy, for further appeals may be made, and let us hope Muslim women band together and reveal their true feelings on this matter.
Let us hope that the attorney General sticks to his firm rejection of polygamy, for further appeals may be made, and let us hope Muslim women band together and reveal their true feelings on this matter.
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Wendy,
Well said. Polygamy is an affront to our values and way of life. It must not be allowed to happen in Australia.
If they want polygamy, it's available in many Islamic countries.
But Australia is a polygamy-free zone.
Well said. Polygamy is an affront to our values and way of life. It must not be allowed to happen in Australia.
If they want polygamy, it's available in many Islamic countries.
But Australia is a polygamy-free zone.
1
June 27, 2008
Well Sheikh Chami, did you report those who broke the law? Or is that a trifle to you?
Well spotted. There is no law but Islamic law to the faithful Muslim.
2
June 27, 2008
In my mind polygamy is legalized prostitution.
Polygamy is another Islamic anomaly which translates into much suffering, envy, jealousy, and injustice. A family of one human Muslim stud and four or more Muslim women isn't the same as a bull and several cattle in a pasture. A woman doesn't have the same feelings that a cow does. A woman in a polygamous family will feel envy, jealousy and left out while the Muslim stud is making out, in the next room, or across town, with one of his paramours. These feelings are normal, and should be avoided.
Sometimes there are several children by one male stud and his many wives. Sometimes these wild male studs can sire as many as twenty, thirty, forty children. Where is the companionship and the attention that each child needs with his father? There isn't much there if any. The children become abnormal and unruly. The whole situation isn't normal. Later in life, you will see some of these children committing crimes, burning cars, raping, stealing, and all because they weren't taught good manners by a father that didn't have time to teach them good manners. The Muslim male stud was too busy with one of his wives while the children ran rampantly.
Usually one Muslim male stud can't take care of a huge family with needed provisions. As a result the weight is turned over to the state. And guess who pays? That's right, the burden is now on the backs of normal families of one man and his wife, and all because a Muslim stud went wild with uncontrolled passions.
As far as the picture above goes, I see one wild Muslim male with a contented smile, and four women with forced or sad smiles. Looks like a smirk on one of the wives. The whole scenario is abnormal, very Islamic. It's better if Muslims become normal. That way there will be greater harmony in a society.
Polygamy is another Islamic anomaly which translates into much suffering, envy, jealousy, and injustice. A family of one human Muslim stud and four or more Muslim women isn't the same as a bull and several cattle in a pasture. A woman doesn't have the same feelings that a cow does. A woman in a polygamous family will feel envy, jealousy and left out while the Muslim stud is making out, in the next room, or across town, with one of his paramours. These feelings are normal, and should be avoided.
Sometimes there are several children by one male stud and his many wives. Sometimes these wild male studs can sire as many as twenty, thirty, forty children. Where is the companionship and the attention that each child needs with his father? There isn't much there if any. The children become abnormal and unruly. The whole situation isn't normal. Later in life, you will see some of these children committing crimes, burning cars, raping, stealing, and all because they weren't taught good manners by a father that didn't have time to teach them good manners. The Muslim male stud was too busy with one of his wives while the children ran rampantly.
Usually one Muslim male stud can't take care of a huge family with needed provisions. As a result the weight is turned over to the state. And guess who pays? That's right, the burden is now on the backs of normal families of one man and his wife, and all because a Muslim stud went wild with uncontrolled passions.
As far as the picture above goes, I see one wild Muslim male with a contented smile, and four women with forced or sad smiles. Looks like a smirk on one of the wives. The whole scenario is abnormal, very Islamic. It's better if Muslims become normal. That way there will be greater harmony in a society.
3
June 27, 2008
So, any consensual relationship is OK? On those grounds pedophilia should be accepted if children consent to it.
Actually, to commit pedophilia doesn't need the child's consent, the pedophile only needs a consent from the child's parent, because as a minor, the child is considered not adult enough to make a decision (but adult enough to be molested). This is Islamic law.
I think the dhimmies (or anybody else) who allow shariah implementation, even partly, should answer whether or not they would allow pedophilia as a part of shariah law, and if they wouldn't, on what ground they reject it.
4
June 27, 2008
Wendy,
Your short video exposes so much of the enormous cultural divide between Islam (men) and the rest of the world.
The interviewer just "didnt get it"!
Questions like "do you have a problem with men?"
or statements like "Saudi women dont want to drive". He doesnt understand that the rest of the world has moved on, and women have equal rights and freedoms only dreamed of by muslim women,
Actually he makes George Negus look good!
Islam traps muslims in a galactic 7th century "black hole" from which they cant escape! After 1400 years their culture hasn't changed.
On QANDA (ABC TV) last night this question was addressed and it was unanimously opposed, even by resident guru Tim Blair.
I am writing to McClelland to support him on this stance, and to raise the issue of Victorian legislation which protects Islam from criticism. It may be a good time to raise this issue with him.
Da Bolta (Herald Sun) had a good article with some inciteful comments. Watch the video of an Arab man describing how marriage to a 1 yo girl is acceptable in Islam! Another 7th century practice!
LINK
Your short video exposes so much of the enormous cultural divide between Islam (men) and the rest of the world.
The interviewer just "didnt get it"!
Questions like "do you have a problem with men?"
or statements like "Saudi women dont want to drive". He doesnt understand that the rest of the world has moved on, and women have equal rights and freedoms only dreamed of by muslim women,
Actually he makes George Negus look good!
Islam traps muslims in a galactic 7th century "black hole" from which they cant escape! After 1400 years their culture hasn't changed.
On QANDA (ABC TV) last night this question was addressed and it was unanimously opposed, even by resident guru Tim Blair.
I am writing to McClelland to support him on this stance, and to raise the issue of Victorian legislation which protects Islam from criticism. It may be a good time to raise this issue with him.
Da Bolta (Herald Sun) had a good article with some inciteful comments. Watch the video of an Arab man describing how marriage to a 1 yo girl is acceptable in Islam! Another 7th century practice!
LINK
5
June 27, 2008
Hugo - 'But Australia is a polygamy-free zone.' With the current economic woes in Australia, there is a widespread realisation that polygamy will take our tax dollars, support a lazy lifestyle. A man with 3 wives and a lot of children could have them all in a Housing commission place and earn more money than a truck driver working 7 days a week. I think Aussies realise this polygamy push is a con.
Michael 'no law but Islamic law ' - yes, and that is why there must be requirements BEFORE Australian citizenship is granted - one basic one being - upholding Australian law. loyalty to this country before all others.
Philip -'legalized prostitution' - yes, I would like to see more women within Islam speak out against the underlying reality - but then few are psychologically 'free' to do so.
Abu Taleb - '...I think the dhimmies (or anybody else) who allow shariah implementation, even partly, should answer whether or not they would allow pedophilia as a part of shariah law, and if they wouldn't, on what ground they reject it.'
in the west - despite the existence of pornography - most people usually draw the line at pedophilia. The problem here would be to get those in the west to take Islam's claims seriously - many would say ' Oh, only extreme ones do that, not the 'average' Muslim' and so on. There is a resistance to the truth that people live their lives according to the letter of the Qur'an and that they are willing to kill or die rather than have it otherwise.
the problem in the west is deeper - it is a failure to take faith claims seriously. A writer George Weigel recently wrote a book entitled
'Faith, Reason and the War against Jihadism' in which he said there is a 'tone deafness' in the west to accept the fact that 'for the overwhelming majority of humanity, religious conviction provides the story line through which life's meaning is read' . He also says
'A West that does not take religious ideas seriously as a dynamic force in the world's unfolding history is a West that will have idsarmed itself, conceptually and imaginatively in the midst of war'.
It is not a question of doing comparative religion 101 - but understanding that Muslims live by the word of the Qur'an and that it not only intrudes on all aspects of Muslims' lives, but is increasingly intruding on all aspects of Western people's lives as well. Most in the West just cannot believe that anyone would take religion so seriously. It is a major delusion on their part and the problem is -how to overcome it when relativism rules and the the metaview of the west is that religion is 'just private' and so Islam will inevitably become just a private concern. History is reavealing the opposite - and we need the media to declare what they see before them. WE need to assert our Western 'metaview' again - and remember the values that made this unique civilisation - not in a triumphalist way - but in fair balanced and strong way. In the west are yet to do so.
geoff - it is a great video isn't it? I just wonder how it got recorded at all - does anyone know how this woman got away with it?
Michael 'no law but Islamic law ' - yes, and that is why there must be requirements BEFORE Australian citizenship is granted - one basic one being - upholding Australian law. loyalty to this country before all others.
Philip -'legalized prostitution' - yes, I would like to see more women within Islam speak out against the underlying reality - but then few are psychologically 'free' to do so.
Abu Taleb - '...I think the dhimmies (or anybody else) who allow shariah implementation, even partly, should answer whether or not they would allow pedophilia as a part of shariah law, and if they wouldn't, on what ground they reject it.'
in the west - despite the existence of pornography - most people usually draw the line at pedophilia. The problem here would be to get those in the west to take Islam's claims seriously - many would say ' Oh, only extreme ones do that, not the 'average' Muslim' and so on. There is a resistance to the truth that people live their lives according to the letter of the Qur'an and that they are willing to kill or die rather than have it otherwise.
the problem in the west is deeper - it is a failure to take faith claims seriously. A writer George Weigel recently wrote a book entitled
'Faith, Reason and the War against Jihadism' in which he said there is a 'tone deafness' in the west to accept the fact that 'for the overwhelming majority of humanity, religious conviction provides the story line through which life's meaning is read' . He also says
'A West that does not take religious ideas seriously as a dynamic force in the world's unfolding history is a West that will have idsarmed itself, conceptually and imaginatively in the midst of war'.
It is not a question of doing comparative religion 101 - but understanding that Muslims live by the word of the Qur'an and that it not only intrudes on all aspects of Muslims' lives, but is increasingly intruding on all aspects of Western people's lives as well. Most in the West just cannot believe that anyone would take religion so seriously. It is a major delusion on their part and the problem is -how to overcome it when relativism rules and the the metaview of the west is that religion is 'just private' and so Islam will inevitably become just a private concern. History is reavealing the opposite - and we need the media to declare what they see before them. WE need to assert our Western 'metaview' again - and remember the values that made this unique civilisation - not in a triumphalist way - but in fair balanced and strong way. In the west are yet to do so.
geoff - it is a great video isn't it? I just wonder how it got recorded at all - does anyone know how this woman got away with it?
6
June 27, 2008
Philip: "In my mind polygamy is legalized prostitution."
Actually, Islam does treat women like prostitutes even in a normal monogamous marriage. A dowry is paid to get legal access of a woman's body, once the man has had sex with the woman, then the dowry can not be returned when a divorce takes place. If they haven't had sex, the man can demand back the dowry, although some ulamas said only half could be returned.
In the divorce, each party keeps their own properties, so the woman can keep the dowry as a payment for her "service", but for the sake of "Islamic kindness", the man can give some money to console the woman, the same way if somebody get fired from his job.
Only the husband can do the divorce in a very easy way, just pronounce "I divorce you" three times.
In this situation, an Islamic marriage is not much different from prostitution, only cheaper.
Actually, Islam does treat women like prostitutes even in a normal monogamous marriage. A dowry is paid to get legal access of a woman's body, once the man has had sex with the woman, then the dowry can not be returned when a divorce takes place. If they haven't had sex, the man can demand back the dowry, although some ulamas said only half could be returned.
In the divorce, each party keeps their own properties, so the woman can keep the dowry as a payment for her "service", but for the sake of "Islamic kindness", the man can give some money to console the woman, the same way if somebody get fired from his job.
Only the husband can do the divorce in a very easy way, just pronounce "I divorce you" three times.
In this situation, an Islamic marriage is not much different from prostitution, only cheaper.
7
June 27, 2008
Wendy,
Attorney-General Robert McLelland told the ABC: 'There is absolutely no way that the government will recognise polygamist relationships. They are unlawful and they will remain as such."
Brave words. I just hope that you stick to this Mr McLelland, and don't kowtow when the Islamists make increasingly strident demands, as they inevitably will.
This is our problem. We just don't want to be "insensitive" to their culture, so when they up the ante and start accusing us of racism or Islamophobia for not respecting their culture, that's when we capitulate.
The UK is about to recognise polygamous marriages. How long before we do?
Attorney-General Robert McLelland told the ABC: 'There is absolutely no way that the government will recognise polygamist relationships. They are unlawful and they will remain as such."
Brave words. I just hope that you stick to this Mr McLelland, and don't kowtow when the Islamists make increasingly strident demands, as they inevitably will.
This is our problem. We just don't want to be "insensitive" to their culture, so when they up the ante and start accusing us of racism or Islamophobia for not respecting their culture, that's when we capitulate.
The UK is about to recognise polygamous marriages. How long before we do?
8
June 27, 2008
"Well Sheikh Chami, did you report those who broke the law? Or is that a trifle to you?"
A Muslim brother will not dob in another Muslim. After all, non-Muslims are inferiors, so why should they be given any help to enforce their infidel law.
Any real Muslim who lives here wants sharia to be the law of Australia. If they deny it, they are merely practicing taqiya.
This becomes a huge problem in law enforcement, as those who could inform on planned terrorist activities will not inform on their fellow Muslims.
Whilst it would be wrong to treat all Muslims as suspect, Islamic text mandates antipathy towards non-Muslims, so there is a conflict between following their religion and being loyal citizens.
This doesn't happen with other religions, where there is a clear separation of religion and politics.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but I know it isn't to give in to their every whim - mosques on campus, separate toilets et al!
A Muslim brother will not dob in another Muslim. After all, non-Muslims are inferiors, so why should they be given any help to enforce their infidel law.
Any real Muslim who lives here wants sharia to be the law of Australia. If they deny it, they are merely practicing taqiya.
This becomes a huge problem in law enforcement, as those who could inform on planned terrorist activities will not inform on their fellow Muslims.
Whilst it would be wrong to treat all Muslims as suspect, Islamic text mandates antipathy towards non-Muslims, so there is a conflict between following their religion and being loyal citizens.
This doesn't happen with other religions, where there is a clear separation of religion and politics.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but I know it isn't to give in to their every whim - mosques on campus, separate toilets et al!
9
June 27, 2008
Islamic paradise is a giant brothel for men and this is recreated on earth in a small way in Islamic marriage where men have multiple wives whom they can divorce by uttering a few words---thus islamic marriage is nothing but the creation of private brothels and breeding herds where females have no security or equality with their owners (men) what-so-ever!
Islamic law allows the marrige of children whom guardians can hand over at will--will we allow this too!!
As for protests by Muslim women---how can they protest as they choose to follow this evil where their god and prophet allowed/practised this and many other acts of perversion, violence and abuse. This IS ISLAM!
All efforts to make sharia acceptable must be rejected or everything we hold dear, our equality, freedom and human rights will be utterly destroyed as this evil and its promoters continue to demand and chip away the society we currently enjoy but they must change to comply with their foul ideology.
Islamic law allows the marrige of children whom guardians can hand over at will--will we allow this too!!
As for protests by Muslim women---how can they protest as they choose to follow this evil where their god and prophet allowed/practised this and many other acts of perversion, violence and abuse. This IS ISLAM!
All efforts to make sharia acceptable must be rejected or everything we hold dear, our equality, freedom and human rights will be utterly destroyed as this evil and its promoters continue to demand and chip away the society we currently enjoy but they must change to comply with their foul ideology.
10
June 28, 2008
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The Holy month of Ramadan is over. As we ALL know by now the end of Ramadan is always marked by Eid-al-Fitr (time for senseless gluttony), and it's followed by Eid-al Adha (more gluttony, mass slaughter of animals and hands in blood deeping)..jpg)
This will become a more and more common occurance as the "marginalized" Muslim youths are forced to defend their livelihood from brutal persecution of the Australian police (in this case N.S.W. police).
Of course he doesn't and he simply says that Feiz Muhammad's rant was as bad as Geert Wilders'.
Yes, apparently Feiz Muhammad is back in Sydney and preaching, but before you start asking why he's not yet arrested by AFP - just think for a minute and ask yourself:
And the good news is the judge refused to suspend his jail term.
