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Retards reawaken---exconverts to Islam speak out:

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There is NO evidence of Islam pre the 7th century, and NO Koran's from the 7th century and no non-Muslim verification that Mohammad existed in Mecca and Medina at the start of the 7th century, yet Muslims repeatedly pretend Islam existed even before Judaism and Christianity and convince people to 'revert' to the supposedly original religion-Islam!  I regard becoming Muslim as 'retarding', or devolving, not reverting and am pleased to readCeline that many who get sucked in reawaken and leave Islamic barbarity!   Why do people 'retard' ?  Many 'retards' are looking for some guidance or purpose in life, know nothing or little about the real Islam and are sweet talked by a Muslim (Abdul mentions ' cunning Muslim proselytizers ')… Abdul-Quddus's  story in particular is a warning for young people and their parents! Celine and Abdul left Islam when they discovered the truth about it—if we could expose Islamic text and laws, others could be saved the folly of joining an evil ideology that promises to kill those who leave!   In Australia we must demand our right to expose Islam!

1) Celine Leduc, middle-aged (Christian background), looking for spiritual clarity, converted to Islam on impulse after meeting a Muslim woman.  She thought she had returned to her roots!  She was told Jesus was a Muslim prophet and liked the prayers, and idea of unity and peace…..however the peace turned into hate speech against Jews and Christians..
     " I could not take it anymore and left the Muslim world full of paradox and conundrums "…" The Muslim world was harsh, full of rules and I had to cover my spirituality and was left with little room for freedom of thought."  
As a research student, she has interviewed many middle-eastern and North African Jewish women .
"and when I told them that I had tried Islam for a while, they said: I have a cousin, a sister-in-law, a friend who became Muslim when we were in Egypt. They did it for their survival in Cairo or Alexandria. However, after they left Egypt, they all came back to their Jewish roots. One of my friends added, you can understand what we went through and some of the problems we faced.   I did, but what I learnt from them is that you can love the Muslim world, its culture and history, even if at times it is harsh and cruel. My Jewish friends from Egypt are the ones who introduced me to the complexity of the Muslim world and they gave me the gift of love, which means to know the good and the bad and never forget to remain human and open. I guess I was right all those years ago, to think that Jesus was a Jewish man and a Rabbi, since my Jewish friends taught me how to love my neighbour as myself. " (source)
Celine's retardation into Islam was published on many Islamic sites----one wonders if her return to sanity and rejection of Islam is equally published?
 
2)  Abdul-Quddus (Canadian) had a vague Christian background, was distressed at injustice and apparent western modernity and decadence, suffered depression, felt he had failed his parents' expectations and went in search of god and purpose, trying many religions, particularly Buddhism.  He became Muslim after a sibling 'retarded' and he perused Muslim websites and TV programs.  He liked the monotheistic simplicity---he knew claims of Mohammad's paedophilia, genocide, thievery, rape, and murder. Supposedly, Islam was a barbaric cult stuck in seventh-century Arabia bereft of human rights and with a disavowal for advancement..but once 'retarded' he dismissed them as propaganda.  He decided to excel at Islam and even thought of jihad (fighting!) and martyrdom.  He now realizes his faith was sustained by FEAR, the claims (above) were TRUE and Islam cannot be reformed!!  Islam didn't mean peace, it meant unquestioning submission!  He suggests most 'converts' fade away within a few years.... 
"A substantial amount of ayat (verses) of the Qur’an are intimidating threats against your personal well-being."
 He was given a selected, santised version of Islam initially including false claims that Islam had been preserved unchanged! He feared hellfire and discovered he wouldn't make paradise because he had been Buddhist:-
"I later learned that he viewed me as an idolater that could never make it to jannah (paradise). According to al-Qur’an, Allah will never forgive shirk (associating partners with Allaah) and “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.” (Koran 3:85)"
Once he joined, he was given a totally different ideology!!  He followed all rituals, prayed, 'retarded' others…Christians were converted by showing the inconsistencies in the Bible (Don't mention the glaring errors in the Koran, need for abrogation-Koran 2:106, 16:101 need for hadiths and commentaries..) while atheists etc were supposedly enticed via Islamic creationism!  All were given 'selective' materials!  Mohammad was presented as just like the Hebrew prophets---Christians were berated for rejecting Mohammad as Jews rejected Jesus!  Guilt and fear were common tools.
He sought a more accurate version of the Koran, romanticsed early Islam and wanted pan-Islam, not freedom or democracy and believed it achievable via oil money!  He took a Muslim first name, shunned music (Islam bans playing or listening to musical instruments) and only ate halal!
Wording is Important

"the notorious “Yusuf Ali” Qur’an was a translation that pandered to Western liberal values attempting to lure non-Muslims to Islam! "
The greatest test to his belief came when he actually read an accurate translation of the Koran—Text came from Mohammad's vocal chords—if he was illiterate he had no idea what was written down!!  Most companions (also illiterate) memorized the Koran and many died in battle…..Was text tampered with?   Why did the supposedly clear Koran explained in detail and written in Arabic contain so many foreign words and need the ahadith and commentaries to explain it?
"an unbiased exegete would conclude that nothing “new” arrived with seventh-century Islam…. Truthfully, I found nothing “revealed” by Prophet Muhammad that couldn’t be influenced by or plagiarized from existing sources, especially from the Judeo-Christian tradition (Tanakh, Talmud, New testament, apocryphal works). Everything Islamic could be traced to pre-Islamic origins, from theology to pilgrimage rites."
"To my discovery, the Islamic deity was actually the generic anthropomorphic Sky Father abound in popular mythology. He was afflicted with psychological infirmities such as megalomania, melancholy, and malevolence. ….As an omniscient entity, he should have exhibited irrevocable authorship in his scripture, instead of acting capricious by amending and abrogating revelations like a fallible redactor confused about what He should have written initially. …..
"The god of Islam, likely just Muhammad’s alter-ego, displayed masculinity, anger, indecision, misogyny, and other moral weaknesses unbefitting of a majestic deity. Between Muhammad and Allah, there was an uncanny resemblance in personality."
"The deity was fictitious and cruel, the founder deplorably barbaric and sinful, the scripture mediocre and uninspired, the laws primitive and unjust. I perceived Muhammad as a fraud and Allah as his imaginary friend."
"With two garbage bags, I eagerly erased Islam from my life…..Never had I eagerly renounced an attachment with such certainty and resentment"
"But the reality is, where Christians sought forgiveness for sinners, Muslims sought punishment. Muslims prayed towards an inanimate object (i.e., the Ka’bah at Makkah), while Christians prayed towards the heavens. Ahl us-Sunnah proudly ate on the floor with their hands like animals, while the kuffar used chairs and utensils like rightly guided people. As for the corpus of Islam, unable to find a shred of originality, I concluded the Qur’aan as the most unoriginal composition in religion."

He noted changes made to suit Mohammad's whims, hatred of Jews and political propaganda.  He questioned the absurd requirements for prayer rituals, the pagan rituals of the hajj, Islam's idol worshipping, jinns, kissing the Koran and Arab supremacy as prayers and Koranic readings had to be in Arabic!

"we had to become Arab to be Muslim."
He noted the Islamic world was a catastrophe of confused, inconsistent text, with Mohammad as infallible hero—and that Muslims lied, made free thinking and dissent criminal and ignored Islamic violence/atrocities obviously committed in the name of allah the world over while claiming Muslims were the best of people (3:110)

"The greatest threat to dogmatism is doubt because thinking leads to kufr (disbelief). Islam thought for us"
"Ironically, freethinking and open-mindedness brought me to tolerate their da’wah and convert. I embraced Islam and gave Allah my undivided worship. But because I now kindly disagree, Islamic scholars say I should be killed. Even moderate Muslims living in the West concede with my death sentence."
"I found it deplorable that Muhammad, a man over fifty years of age, married six year-old ‘Aishah and then consummated the marriage when she was nine. His hatred for the Jews rivaled the antisemitism of Adolf Hitler. The Prophet, supposedly guided by God, did not abolish slavery but actually possessed slaves. He waged systematic campaigns to exterminate opponents. I came from a civilization where murder was considered, believe it or not, wrong? I had to draw the line somewhere."
"As blindly obedient slaves of Allah, resultantly, believers became subdued as mentally comatose Islamobots without the ability to doubt, question, or scrutinize."
"We had to agree with the inferiority of women, the amputation of the hand for thieves, and antisemitic hatred of the Jews. There was stoning of women and animal sacrifices. Even the incentives of Islam were ignoble. Paradise, an apparent Club Med in the sky, contained earthly sensuality and materialism catering to primitive man, such as numerous women, wine, and couches. A married Muslimah would spend eternity attending her husband as he titillated with numerous women in bed. A sensible man should expect better treatment for his wife (i.e., an equal human being that is someone’s daughter, sister, or mother). No progressive interpretation of such scripture could hide the ignominiousness."
"As an apostate of Islam, similar to all dissidents, I keep my views hidden. But on one occasion, I confessed about my apostasy and opinions to one Muslim and was almost physically assaulted….. For safety reasons, I kept up appearances and preferred to pose as a nominal or nonpracticing Muslim instead of an apostate."
Fatwa
This Fatawa (1978 - Egypt) describes how an Egyptian man turned apostate and the subsequent punishment prescribed for him by the Al-Azhr Fatawa council. Click of the image for translation.
  
"Before I was an agnostic, but after my experience with Islam, I’ve become an atheist"
"The religion of Prophet Muhammad kept me shackled from the diverse richness that is life. I’ve since rediscovered love; the unconditional loving-kindness and equal respect for all humankind, irrespective of gender, caste, race, language, nationality, religion, or lack there of"
"for the Muslims in the audience, a quotation from Stephen F. Roberts who eloquently said it best: “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

16/03/2007 Journey Through Islam  The testimony of a former convert to Islam  By: Abdul-Quddus  also on faithfreedom.org   (Note 9 pages long—with one exception, quotes are in text order –Koranic references are his) 
His 'retardation' testimony was also on Islamic websites..

 

 
Comments (9)add comment
Dan Zaremba
Dan Zaremba: ... http://www.islammonitor.org
Circe,
There is NO evidence of Islam pre the 7th century, and NO Koran's from the 7th century and no non-Muslim verification that Mohammad existed in Mecca and Medina at the start of the 7th century,


These facts are hardly ever mentioned, yet it is true that there areNO historical sources/testimony confirming the existence of Muhammad.
1

August 05, 2007
0
Tristan Jones: ...
The Doctrina Iacobi and the Armenian Chronicles of the 7th Century do record the existence of Muhammad, although it is different from the Muslim accounts of Muhammad which were written down a century or two later.

2

August 05, 2007
Dan Zaremba
Dan Zaremba: ... http://www.islammonitor.org
Tristan,
Yes you're right this is the part from the Doctrina Iacobi:
We Jews are full of joy. They say that a prophet has appeared among the Saracens, and that he proclaims the advent of the anointed one, the Messiah who is to come. When I, Abraham, had gone to Sykamina, I consulted an old man well-versed in the Scriptures on this matter, asking: 'What is your opinion, my master and teacher, on this prophet who has appeared among the Saracens?'
With a mighty sigh, he replied: 'He is an impostor. Prophets don't come with sword and chariot. Truly the events of today are the works of disorder. I fear that the Messiah that came first, the one that is worshipped by the Christians, was indeed sent by God, and that we will be found by the Devil. Didn't Isaiah say that we, Jews, 'are to have a heart of stone full of errors until the end of the world'? But go now, master Abraham, and find out for yourself about this prophet.
Searching and toiling, I, Abraham, was learned from people who had met him: 'You won't find any truth in this prophet, only bloodshed; for he says he possesses the keys of paradise, which is incredible.' (Doctrina Jacobi 5.16)

Of course the main point here is the existence od Islam before Judeo-Christian religions.
3

August 05, 2007
Jaisingh Thakur
Jaisingh Thakur: ...
Tristan and Dan,
Thank You for the lovely insights provided by you. All these claims of islam pre-dating ancient religions like Judaism, Christianity, and, even Hinduism,ridiculous as they are, have at their root, a subconscious realisation on the part of their ideologues that it is, in fact inferior to all those religions which precede it insofar as it totally lacks the "spiritual" content which is the core of every religion. It does not have any philosophical content to show, it has no aesthetical sense, and the world view that it has to give to its followers is entirely bogus and a self-destructive one as, I am sure the muslims will themselves realise one day when they start thinking for themselves. Let us remember that islam demands two things for its survival : one is the avoidance of any religious competition, and second is political power so as to retain the followers in their fold with brute force. The dynamics of our modern world is anything but sympathetic to this islamic condition. We live in a globalised world and it is only a matter of time before islam withers away in the heat of the intense competition that it faces all over the world!
4

August 06, 2007
Blue Heeler
Blue Heeler: ...
"The deity was fictitious and cruel, the founder deplorably barbaric and sinful, the scripture mediocre and uninspired, the laws primitive and unjust. I perceived Muhammad as a fraud and Allah as his imaginary friend."


There is no knowledge like hard-won knowledge! If only these insights could be brought to all muslims. At least then, their protestations and continued cleaving to islam could be shown as the fraudulent thinking it is.
I am not as capable as you, Dan, or Circe and others here, who seem able to wade through swathes of this nonsense that passes as cogent thought. Me? It does my head in!
I tried to "read" the koran nearly 20 years ago, but found it contradictory, turgid, primitive and derivative - those parts that I could comprehend. This attempt to read came in the first year of my resurgent Christianity and the stark contrasts between allah and God were illuminating. I am still struck by the urgency with which God declares Himself to be love,and the myriad ways in which this attribute emphasises itself; which contrasts glaringly with the attributes of allah!

It was some little time later that I discovered there was a need to "interpret" the words of allah, and that was the clincher for me. The haddiths failed every test, and they still do.

I wish I had the certainty of Jaisingh Thakur; that islam will wither away. I can imagine scenarios where this is likely, however, until I see some indication of this unfolding - and I do not - I will remain commited to seeing this barbaric mindset does not take root in Australia.
Not one inch, not now, not ever.
5

August 06, 2007
Dan Zaremba
Dan Zaremba: ...
Blue,
I am not as capable as you, Dan, or Circe and others here, who seem able to wade through swathes of this nonsense that passes as cogent thought.

Trust me, it isn't fun. For fun I'd rather read my Yellow Pages . ;)
6

August 06, 2007
Wendy Larkson
Wendy Larkson: ... http://...
I always find it interesting how people manage to leave Islam, especially if theywere born into it. childhood conditioning is a powerful force and in ways that are not always so obvious. The conversion stories that really hit me were those of Nonie Darwish, Bilquis Sheikh and Ali Sina, all of whom have described their journies out of Islam in books.

In the case of Bilquis Sheikh, a Pakistani Muslim, it was personal tragedy- her husband decided to leave her - and the bible of her servant that aroused her curiosity in the world outside Islam. During this time, while visiting a sick relative in hsopital, she remarked to a Phillipino doctor on duty there, that she found it hard to pray, whereupon the Phillipino doctor ventured to advise her to speak to God as a father. This notion of God as a father totally rocked Bilquis and was the turning point for her- as in Islam God was remote and capricious, whose ways were awesome but who certainly was not a 'father'. Bilquis tried this type of prayer in fact to God, as the Jews and Christians pray to Him, and one thing led to another and she ended up a Christian and in fact, as we would expect, having to flee Pakistan due to death threats from her family, to the US where she now lives with her children. Here book 'I Dared Call Him Father' continues to fascinate people.

Here's a link to Amazon for anyone interested in the book
http://www.amazon.com/I-Dared-Call-Him-Father/dp/1842911511
7

August 06, 2007
0
Circe: ...
Yes, there is the doctrina jacobi (Greek anti-Jewish text ~634-640 AD written in Palestine) and the 660/1 Chronicler BUT they were written after Mohammad's supposed death and refer to a prophet and close links between the Jews and Arabs in PALESTINE. The Islamic tale claims Mohammad severed relations with Jews in 624AD and that Mohammad ranged around Mecca and Medina, far away from Palestine! As I stated in my article, there is NO evidence of Mohammad in Mecca and Medina at the times according to Islamic text--ie born 570, died 632 with no indication of ever going to Palestine!

People are warned in the Doctrina Jacobi not to go near this very dangerous Jewish/Arab group who probably took Palestine post Mohammad's supposed death (far away!). The governor of Jerusalem after the conquest was a Jew according to an Armenian source.

In the dome of the rock, built 691 AD which isn't a mosque but more a sanctuary, both Jesus and Mohammad are mentioned (though there is NO mention of Mohammad's night flight which it is supposed to commemorate!) in inscriptions.

Also Nevo's work in Israel, and the Syro-Jordanian deserts shows that in the first 1.5 centuries of Arab rule there was a monotheistic religion but it was NOT Islam. .Mohammad's name and inscriptions that he is the prophet etc don't appear until after 691AD. "In all the Arab religious institutions during the Sufyani period 661-684 AD there is a complete absence of any reference to Mohammad!" It was into the 8th century that 'Mohammadan formulae' became commonly used by the public and even then they were NOT Muslim!....

So while there was, in an area well away from Mecca and Medina, evidence of a monotheistic faith as the Arabs conquered others, the archaeological evidence contradicts Muslim claims and doesn't support the Muslim history of Mohammad and claims that the koran has not been changed since Mohammad (of Mecca/Medina 632!)etc

I repeat, there are NO Korans from the 7th century (ask a Muslim where you can see it ---note the Topkapi in Turkey which no-one can study?? at Topkapi Palace and the Samarqand in Tashkent and the possible earliest, a manuscript dated to 790 AD-late 8th century in the British museum are not the same as today's Koran) and you need to go some time later to find bits that still vary and even later to find a whole koran that matches today's! The earliest outside reference to something called a 'quran' was mid 8th century but there is no idea what the text actually was –the descriptions I have read refer only to a few chapters (not today’s 114!) including one that isn’t in today’s Koran and we have no idea of the content!

There is no evidence of mohammad in Mecca/Medina at the times claimed by Islamic 'history' and no Korans from the early 7th century when Arabs poured across the middle-east, Africa, Asia and even into Europe –didn’t anyone take a Koran—or was it and the whole history developed later?
Please see a simple summary at http://debate.org.uk/topics/hi...ntents.htm or read more in books eg 'The quest for the historical Mohammad by Ibn Warraq or a brief account in 'Why I am not a Muslim' by Ibn Warraq.
8

August 06, 2007
It's funny how the Muzzie propagandists try to use "this is not in the Koran " line tu muddy the waters.
9

August 11, 2007

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